Celebrating 100 Episodes

I hope our show, and our consulting and writing and all the things we do, can play some role in helping people find the core of what made things like Scrum so effective for you and me when we first discovered them, and make human centric work more of a thing in the world.

It’s episode 100 of the Humanizing Work Show! In this episode, Richard and Peter highlight their favorite episodes so far and why they’re worth revisiting. Then, they reflect on how their thinking has changed since the show started, what they’ve learned from producing the show, and what they hope is true 100 episodes from now.

Episode Links

Richard’s Favorite Episodes

Season 2 Episode 2: Jazz, Teams, and Work

A Breakthrough in Hiring with TheraSpecs

The Three Jobs of Management (HW Show)

Interview with Lee McCormack

Peter’s Favorite Episodes

Couch to Running 45 Miles Across the Grand Canyon

Review Agenda

Culture Signals

Cracking the Code of Effective Leadership with the Leadership Circle

Audience Favorite Episodes

Handling Unrealistic Deadlines

What do I focus on as a new Product Owner?

PO Board Overview

“The Scrum Episodes”

Why Scrum works when it works

Effective Sprint Planning

How To Have a More Effective Daily Scrum Tomorrow

Effective Sprint Reviews

Two Key Moves for Better Sprint Retrospectives

These Six Things Improve How Teams Work

Dealing with Interruptions on a Scrum Team


Laloux Culture Model (2022 Update)


Episode transcription

Peter Green

Welcome to the humanizing work show. Today’s a special episode because we have ten fingers and so we use a decimal counting system. And today is our 100th episode. So in the decimal system, this is a really important episode for us. A big milestone to have 100 shows.

Richard Lawrence

And I can see you explaining to your wife why celebrating your anniversary is just an arbitrary thing that happens to be a day with the same name as the one you got married on. Seriously, though, it is kind of hard to believe, with how difficult it was to get those first five episodes out the door in 2019, but this is indeed episode 100, and we find it useful for ourselves and for our clients to not just get stuck heads down delivering week after week, but to stop and zoom out to appreciate progress and to make sense of the bigger picture.

So that’s exactly what we’re going to do in this episode.


All right. To start off our celebratory 100th episode, then, we’re going to highlight a few of our favorite episodes and why we think they might be worth revisiting; especially for people that might be new to this show. So, Richard, why don’t you kick us off? What are some of your favorites?


I still really like episode seven, which was season two, episode two, which was “What can teams learn from a jazz combo?” and if you haven’t seen that one, it’s particularly fun because we’re not just talking about that concept. But Peter is playing with a real jazz combo and I’m interviewing them in between songs and it’s a fascinating look at a different perspective on teams, especially teams doing complex collaborative work.


It’s fun to have that record of that, because that was sort of– in the theme of jazz– was an improvised open space session for an early Scrum conference where I thought, “I wonder if we could make this happen?” And I literally put a Facebook call out to see if anybody in New Orleans knew other jazz players. And we found, I think, a quintet of people I’d never met and just did this thing to say, there’s this– there’s a link here.

So that’s a fun thing to have a record of.


Episode 39 on hiring was a memorable one for me. Hiring is such a big challenge in many organizations, and I think the way Hart and Annette at TheraSpecs have solved the challenges around finding good people—interviewing well, it’s so unique and I would love to see that catch on more.


Yeah, that’s an interesting one from a process standpoint for me, too. And I know we’re going to probably reflect a little bit on what we’ve learned from the process of this as we get later in the episode today. But that episode, I tried to take the idea of if we were to do a “This American Life” production esthetic for the Humanizing Work Show, what would it take?

And it turns out it takes days and days of work to do. So it was a really cool experiment to see what does it take. And now we know.


That’s why we only did it once. Yeah, and almost 50 episodes ago.


Yeah, it’s been a while. Yeah. We chose not to spend, you know, days and days of our time on any one given episode, even though that was probably a good one to spend that time on.


Yeah, both jazz and hiring were long episodes and for our short kind of content-packed ones, episode 56, where we introduce the three jobs of management model is so practical. And since we shot that, I’ve heard from many people among our clients and followers of the show that they share that one more than any other because it really does answer that question: “What’s my job as a manager if I’m in an organization with empowered teams and individuals?”


Yeah, I particularly like that one because it’s one that resonates no matter what industry or type of work people do. A lot of our episodes are pretty agile-centric because that’s where our background is. That’s where a lot of our clients are wanting our help. But the “three jobs” seems to be pretty broadly applicable in any organization.


I think that’s true. And then my last one in my favorite episodes is 84, where we interviewed Lee McCormick, who has been my bike coach for a long time and has become a good friend of me and my family. Lee is full of so many insights, not just on coaching but really on life. And that episode is packed with interesting stories and good advice.

Definitely worth checking out if you haven’t yet.


Just for the facial hair, worth checking out. Namastoke, Lee [referring to Namastoke | See and Accept Everyone].


All right. How about you, Peter? What are some of your favorite episodes from the last hundred?


Well, I just got back from my annual trip to the Grand Canyon, and so top of mind for me is the episode we did– I think it was a year ago. Yeah, it would have been a year ago– where I reflected on kind of my journey from the couch to the Grand Canyon, where last year I did both directions of 45 miles.

It’s a crazy, crazy long run. This year I took it easy, just did about 30. But the thing I like about that episode the most is how we get to touch a little bit on the stories we tell ourselves, and especially how many of our stories that we tell about who we are, are, or can be, sort of self-limiting, like “I am not this or I can’t do that.”

And that was such a powerful experience for me personally that I was happy to share what I learned from that experience of really becoming a runner at a pretty late age relative to other runners.


Right. I have been with you on that transition, and it’s been remarkable to watch and that episode captures it well.


Yeah. Another one that stands out for me is episode 66, where we share what we called a Sprint Review agenda. And there’s a couple of reasons I think this is an interesting episode. The first is that there’s been like whole books written on how to do other parts of Scrum, like the retrospective. There are great books on how to do retrospectives well, and there’s just so little written about, well, what do we do in a Sprint Review?

Like it gets the short shrift for some reason, among the parts of Scrum; and I think can be as important as anything else, if not more important, if what we really care about is building the right product. So we share this agenda for how to run that meeting well; and the other reason I like that episode is that it turns out that what we’re really sharing is “How do you review work in progress when it’s not all the way done, but you want to get feedback on it?”

And then we deal a little bit with the psychology of that, where you really want some celebration, you want some kudos when you’re in the middle of something, for the hard work, but you also want to learn from it, and you also want to build trust that we’re doing good stuff around here. And so we found that that agenda, even though we kind of called it a Sprint Review agenda, is actually a really good path to take for anything that you’re in the middle of.

And we’ve seen executives use that with, you know, slide decks for how they’re going to communicate about a thing– all different contexts. And it’s just been a really powerful set of steps to get good feedback on anything that you’re in the middle of.  I’ll hit a couple other ones. Both of these are sort of on the leadership side.

Episode 71 is where we shared a term that we think we’ve coined called “culture signals.” And what we found is we worked with a lot of really powerful leaders who were trying to change culture. And as we read a lot of stories and read case studies and examples of what really effective leaders did is that they send signals about what is expected around here that cut through the cognitive dissonance and the cognitive load of having to make tradeoffs all the time.

And so, in that episode, we share examples of really clear culture signals that are effective at changing a culture, because just saying this, “This is now what’s important,” is not enough. People either don’t believe it or they still have to make tradeoffs and they don’t know how to balance the new thing that the leader’s talking about versus this other thing that also might be important.

So Culture Signals, episode 71 is another one to check out. I think the last one I’ll mention here is episode 85, where we talk about our experience with the Leadership Circle, which is a model for thinking about leadership and specifically growth as a leader. That has been transformational for me personally. I know for you as well, Richard, has had some really powerful effects and we kind of share how the model works, but then reflect a little bit on how it’s changed us, not just as leaders in a work environment, but how it’s impacted us even in our family relationships and with friends.

So Leadership Circle episode 85 would be the other one that I would point out.


One of the things I particularly love about the Leadership Circle is that there are layers of application to it. Just knowing about the model. Like every month or two, somebody sitting at my kitchen table talking about some challenge in their life and we end up talking about the Leadership Circle and I pull out the brochure and that sort of thing, and they’ve never done a self-assessment, let alone a 360 and coaching and all the things we do around it.

They immediately get more options for their own development and for understanding people. And so just going through that episode immediately has some power and then you can keep following that into deeper engagement with it and more work on yourself. So that is a fun one.


So those are my favorites; Richard’s favorites.  We thought it would be interesting to find out what your favorites were. So we went and looked at our analytics on YouTube and on our podcast client, Castos, to see what were the most popular episodes over these years and some of those we’ve already mentioned. So our rule was, what are the most popular ones that Richard and I didn’t even talk about?

So the top one that we haven’t talked about yet is episode 16. So pretty early days here on unrealistic deadlines. And Richard, you tell a fun story in that one.


Yeah, this is the “but we must.”


We must. Yeah.


Like we can’t make it fit, but we must. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you’re experiencing the “but we must” leadership check out episode 16.


Yep. Then the next one is a pretty recent one where we talked about what we should focus on as a new Product Owner. That was episode 73. Richard, why do you think this one resonated so much?


I think because a lot of people get kind of christened as the Product Owner and don’t really know “What does that mean? I’ve been a Product Manager, is this something different?” or “I haven’t worked in product ever, but now we’re using Scrum and so now I’m a Product Owner” and in that episode we distill it down to what do you do in your first 30 to 90 days as a Product Owner to be effective?


There were definitely some themes in these top episodes that that first one that we mentioned is kind of like, “How do I actually make this stuff work in the real world?” The “What do I do as a new product owner?” And then the next most popular one, which is the board overview, are both pretty Product Owner centric.

So episode 45 was number three on our list. The PO Board overview where Richard walks through a way to visualize the Product Backlog, but more importantly, a way to make the life of a Product Owner manageable and sane. Because it is, I think, the most overstuffed role of any of the Scrum roles for sure. We’re just asking Product Owners to do a lot of things and to do that all as one person.

And the PO board is a visualization tool and kind of a set of simple rules to follow that really helps make the day-to-day life of a Product Owner manageable and sustainable.


One of the Scrum values is focus, and that seems to apply for everybody but the Product Owner. So the PO board, we try to make it an answer to what do I focus on right now so that I don’t have to focus on all these different time horizons and stakeholders and things all at once. And that really has led to calm, sustainable continuous Backlog Refinement for Product Owners.


When we were looking at the analytics, the next set was really a cluster. And so, from episodes 57 through 61, we did a series of just “Here are our thoughts on how Scrum works and why it works when it works. We kick that off with episode 57, which consistently gets ranked among our top probably three or four. That one’s called “Why Scrum Works When It Works,” where we talk about Scrum, not as it’s going to solve every problem that every team has and every industry and every company.

But how do we know when it might work and what about it works? And so we kind of give the why behind Scrum and then the next four episodes we hit each of the main events in Scrum: the planning meeting, the daily Scrum, the Sprint Review and the Sprint Retrospective and those consistently are among the top ranked ones and I think that’s just because there are the rules of Scrum and there’s plenty written about, “Here’s how Scrum works.”

But in each of these episodes we try and dig into the “why” it might work. And here are some ways you might think about doing that more effectively, especially when we get into kind of how to facilitate those meetings. Some of our favorite tips and tricks you’ll find in those episodes. So, 57 to 61.


And then 63, we talk about the research on what makes an effective team totally outside of Scrum. But it turns out one of the things that makes Scrum work is a particular kind of team composition and structures around the team and things like that. And that plays both ways. You’re more likely to be successful with Scrum if you have these six conditions; and Scrum helps you create some of those six conditions.

So 63 is a good one for thinking about teams apart from any particular method of work.


And then the last one that we’ll list here, I don’t know if –we didn’t know how far to go in our list of analytics– but these one’s all sort of– there was a gap between these ones and then the next kind of category. And the last one, episode 68, is dealing with interruptions and it’s just, I think, probably the most common question we get with any client in any class that we’re teaching that is sort of related to Scrum in any way is “Yeah, but how do we deal with interruptions to the things that we planned on working on this Sprint or this week or whatever method people are using?”

“How do we deal with interruptions?” and so we give you some pretty concrete techniques for how to deal with that in episode 68.


All right, let’s shift to zooming out and reflecting a little bit. Peter, what have you changed your mind about or how has your thinking changed since we started the show back in early 2019?


I always find that a difficult question because I don’t remember how I used to think; but luckily, we have some records of that, right? Using the show. And one of the things that I think has evolved quite a bit for me and how I think about it is when I was leading some transformation efforts in the 2010 timeframe, I came across Fredrick Laloux’s book Reinventing Organizations, where he lays out this model for how organizations have evolved over the centuries, and then how in any given organization might evolve through those same stages, depending on the type of leadership, the type of structures you put into place.

And I was really fired up about it because to me it seemed like a logical explanation for why things were the way they were, as well as a road map to how to make things better. And so I did an animation of that really to help me understand it better. I did an animated video, kind of an explainer style whiteboard video around that, and posted it and that thing went viral.

And it’s still the most viral thing I’ve ever done. And sort of– it’s not quite ironically, but  coincidentally– the thing that my thinking has changed a little bit on, which is that I don’t see that and the research doesn’t really bear it out that that is actually a map of how things have evolved, nor is it a good way to predict what to do next and how to shift an organization.

And so the thing I’m most known for by a broad audience is a thing that my thinking has changed on quite a bit. What I do find really useful in Laloux’s model is that I think it does do a good job of describing sort of common value sets. And so I find it really useful when I’m talking to an individual and starting to pick up on cues about what that person really values.

And it’s less about stages of values to me anymore as it is, “Today, what does this person really value? And so I can still use sort of the color shorthand in the back of my head and say, “Okay, I’m hearing a lot of amber here. I’m hearing a lot of orange here. Okay. That tells me a little bit about what’s important to this person right now.”

And then whatever I care about, I can describe in terms that will benefit for those values. So it really goes back to an episode we haven’t mentioned yet about how to, basically, treating all stakeholders like customers. I use this as a shorthand for “this is a customer, a potential customer of the thing that we might want. What do they care about?”


And it’s been really useful for that, but not the way that I thought it would be. We already mentioned another thing that has really shifted for me, which is in episode 63, Richard, you mentioned the six conditions. It’s really good research, first of all, on conditions for successful teams. And I used to think that because this was the experience of my team, if we just get Scrum working, then that’s a good building point for other things to go around it.

What I recognize now is that the reason (one of the reasons) our team was successful with Scrum is because we already had the six conditions in place. By and large, we had the six conditions and therefore Scrum worked really well for our team. And so I’ve started to see now the six conditions as an important precursor to doing Scrum well.

And when I teach Scrum these days I teach the six conditions before I teach much about Scrum because that seems to be the thing that matters. So that’s been a shift in my thinking. It’s really what’s the job of leadership, What’s the job of the team is to make these six conditions happen? And then you can start using things like Scrum or whatever you want to use to get some benefit.

How about you? I’m going to flip it around. What have you changed your mind about or how has your thinking changed?


Yeah, I was looking back over the shows this last week, reflecting on that and noticing some things that have changed. And one thing that was striking to me is that Scrum seems both more important and less important to me now than it did four years ago. And I’ll explain what I mean. It’s less important in the sense that I don’t care that much about Scrum mechanics and Scrum language and some of those things.

I certainly don’t value some of the baggage that Scrum has picked up, which we talked about a few episodes ago in the viral Scrum criticism episode. But there’s a sense in which Scrum has become more important to me as I have seen what happens when you ditch some of the things in Scrum, like a fully cross-functional team, like the Scrum events do really important jobs around synchronizing your work and figuring out how you’re going to collaborate each day to work together in reflecting on what you’ve built and how you’re building it.

It turns out those basic building blocks of Scrum are pretty essential no matter what you call it. And I’ve seen a lot of negative effects from people using the language of Scrum or the language of an Agile approach and missing some of the core things there. And so I care a lot more about those now. I actually feel a little stronger about Scrum as a useful starting point for most product development teams, and I care less about Scrum as Scrum at the same time.

The other thing that I think has changed for me is we’re way clearer now on the importance and role of management in highly empowered organizations. I think back when we first started the show, one of our best case studies was an organization that had gotten rid of most levels of management and was trained to be fully self-organizing. And there were a lot of interesting organizations we were looking at like that coming out of that, like, LaLoux’s work.

And then there were some examples of really good leaders that we knew, but we didn’t really have a systematic way to make sense of what’s going on there. And I think as we’ve developed the three jobs model, it’s become clear that there are these things that need to happen in organizations, and sometimes they’re more built into the system or delegated among various roles.

Sometimes they happen in more traditional hierarchical structures, but hierarchies in service of larger goals and thriving together. And both of those can work. And even that organization, that was our real case study for getting rid of management and becoming self organizing, ended up still having to build all of the structures and systems in. They were just distributed or in some cases concentrated in a small number of senior leaders who got overwhelmed with that.

So we’re much clearer now than we were four years ago on management and how to do it well in a highly empowered org.


Now, we didn’t consciously structure the show this way, Richard, but as you were talking about how Scrum is both more important, less important, and there are just logical things that you need to do as humans. I just realized that we sort of structured this show using Scrum because what we’ve done is we’ve done a bit of a review on “Here’s what we built.” We’ve reflected on what we learned by building it. And now we’re going to shift into the retrospective where we reflect on the process for how we built that. And so, no joke, we didn’t talk about this at all, but those structures just make their way in when you’re talking about humans collaborating around work. So let’s shift into retro mode now and I’ll ask what’s the process of producing a weekly show taught you?


You actually don’t really know this because you’ve been on vacation running the Grand Canyon. But the newsletter coming out this week is actually about this very topic. And I go into more depth about the things that we’ve learned from producing this show and what that means for people who are doing other creative, complex work. But to summarize a little bit here:

The biggest thing for me is the importance of systems and habits. When we first started the show, it was modeled as “a season was a project.” We would get together, we’d shoot five episodes in the same place. We’d spend weeks doing post-production and eventually get the thing out into the world, and then we’d be exhausted, and we’d have to get up the energy to do it again and figure out what the next season would be.

When we relaunched the show, like 80 some episodes ago, in early 2022, we decided to just commit to making a habit out of it for a quarter. And then we just did it week after week, and over time we built systems and habits where we no longer ask, “Should we do a show again?” Now it’s, “What should we do?”

And we just follow our checklists and do what we do week in and week out. And I think that has made it easier and has probably made it better because we’ve had more reps doing the thing. By the way, if you don’t get our newsletter and you haven’t seen that, you can read that issue at humanizingwork.com/100 shows or go to the library section of the humanizing work website.

And while you’re there, subscribe in the footer at the bottom so you do get our weekly newsletter, which has one key idea every week that’s usually different from what we’re talking about on the show. So you can learn two new things from us each week. How about you? What have you learned in the process.


Similar to you reflecting on those early episodes, I remember when we first started it even coming up with a five episode arc, like what are we going to talk about? Just topics seemed like a huge amount of work. And now when we meet to figure out, you know, what do the next couple of episodes look like, we try and keep a queue of a few of them, you know, ready to go, now seems like they’re just endless episode ideas, so it’s a little bit going back to that self-limiting story of doing a podcast is hard and saying, “Well, it doesn’t have to be.”  It’s just all about the habits you develop, right? And so now I think more of the show is, I think in the same way that a lot of really good writers think about writing.

And Richard, I would include you in that category. So I’m curious if if you feel the same way about this, but I think of another episode of the show as just a chance for me to explore something I’m curious about. So what am I curious about right now? What am I reading about? What am I experiencing with clients?

What are we hearing from people that are writing to us, and just using that as a tool to explore things and stay curious and then hopefully share what we discover as we dig into that stuff with a broader audience and then to hopefully let that serve them in some way. So it’s no longer like this big, “What are we going to do?”

It’s like, “What are we curious about right now?” And there are just so many things we’re curious about and so many things we’re working on that it’s been a nice tool to like a medium for us to do that job of staying curious and trying to share what we’re learning with a broad group of people.


That’s especially interesting with the Mailbag episodes, where people send us a question or a challenge when we’re figuring out the episode, whether we’re scripting or doing it more conversationally, the process of figuring out what we’re going to say is often a process of figuring out what do we even think about this? And we kind of write or talk our way into clarity about it.

The other thing that really sticks out to me, as I remember back to before we had our own show and I would listen to things like “This American Life” or “Planet Money” you know, like NPR shows and I remember the credits at the end where they’d list 20 different people. And I remember thinking, “What do all those people do?”

And one of the things that has become really clear to me after a hundred episodes is even though our show is not nearly as polished or professional as those, that this is a team effort, there are a lot of people involved in a lot of different ways, like certainly our Humanizing Work team Angie, Sam, Kathy, Laura, Kieran, all have different ways of contributing and I don’t even know what some of them are.

There’s some things behind the scenes where I know somebody does that. I actually don’t know who, from week to week, because the system just works.


Yeah, related to that, I think of this idea of the team effort, and I think we’d be remiss in not expressing some gratitude to our home teams. Richard, you and I. So one of the– you joked about the anniversary coming up. Well, I think if all goes well, that this episode will come out on my wife Annie’s birthday.

And so I was reflecting on that a little bit and saying, there’s no way that this show exists without Annie’s support. Annie’s superpower is she cares for people. And so when I’m occasionally having to put in extra hours or needing to accommodate, “Richard and I are going to shoot now. So will you please take the dogs and do a thing with them so they don’t interrupt it?” or doing those things.

She never bats an eye. It’s always “Of course, of course I’m happy to do that.” She’s just so supportive of all that we do collectively. She’s there for the ups, but especially for the downs when things get hard and so, special Happy birthday to my wife Annie, who is my strongest supporter and my best teammate.


Yeah, same experience over here.


The other thing that comes to mind is when we’re thinking about all the other people that help, is the audience and especially folks that frequently comment or send us questions or share the content. I frequently hear from people that I haven’t talked to in a long time. Old clients, new clients, and just reconnecting. And often I’ll hear somebody mention the show and say, “Oh, yeah, you know that episode you did on this– that was really helpful in this challenge we were facing,” we very frequently hear something like, “How did you know that that’s the challenge I was facing on my team?” And so it’s really great to hear that. And then especially those who are frequently commenting, I gotta shout out my mom there, who’s our most frequent YouTube commenter, not just because she’s my mom, but she’s–


No—she has good questions and brings us good questions. It’s not just, “Hey, Peter, I’m so proud of you.”


She’s worked in the corporate world for a long time and has a lot of good insight and just has a keen mind anyway. But also folks like Michael and Nicole and Pam, who often will send us great mailbag questions or share an episode that they thought was relevant. So we really appreciate all of you who are doing that and wanted to shout out a few of those folks in particular for being really on top of that.

And we appreciate that.


Last thing we’ve been looking back at the previous hundred episodes. Let’s look forward another hundred episodes. So about two years from now, what do you hope is true then, that may not be as much now?


There’s this term that I learned from the great Jerry Weinberg, who I had the pleasure of taking some training with. And I know he’s been a mentor to a lot of people in the software world and the agile space as well. Certainly consider him in that category for me. And one of Weinberg’s laws of consulting is what he calls the law of Raspberry Jam.

And the idea of this law is that you have a limited amount of raspberry jam to spread. You can spread it really deep on a small piece of toast, or you can spread it really thin over more toast. And he uses this to talk about what should you do as a consultant? Do you want to go really deep with a single client or in a specific problem space?

Or do you want to go really thin across a broad space? And of course, that applies way outside of the consulting world, like all of Jerry’s lessons do. In some ways, the Humanizing Work show gives us a chance to spread our raspberry jam as far as we possibly can. And I’ve always been intrigued with the idea that there needs to be a conflict there.

Like I’m wondering how Eli Gold would apply the evaporating cloud approach to the raspberry jam. And so what do I hope is true two years from now? I hope we’re spreading more jam to more people. And I think a broader range of listeners. We have a lot of great listeners that are like us from the Agile background. And what we’re finding is that so many of the things we talk about are just relevant in life and relevant in work, whether you’re taking an Agile approach or not. And so I’m hoping that our raspberry jam can reach a broader audience.


And along those lines, it would be really interesting to hear from you if you’re in the audience and you’re not in the Agile software development world. We’d love to hear how you found the show, and what is particularly interesting about it to you, because that might help us make the show more relevant beyond the space where we came up and developed some of these ideas.

Looking forward for me two years from now, I would love to see less emphasis and work on the agile mechanics and language and more actual human centric work. It feels like maybe this got worse during the last few years of the pandemic, or just agile becoming more mainstream or something. But it seems like we have more of the terms and more of the language than ever before, and it seems like we have fewer people really thriving in their work from that.

And that bothers me and I would love to see it change over the next few years. And I hope our show and our consulting and writing and all the things we do can play some role in helping people find the core of what made things like Scrum so effective for you and me when we first discovered them, and make human centric work more of a thing in the world.


Nice. Yeah. You don’t even have to ask, Richard. You can get an amen on that. Amen. Yeah. I think in this medium, 100 episodes is a nice milestone and it’s sort of tongue in cheek set up as just a number. But it really is important right? But we also recognize that 100 episodes is just an early milestone for us.

We hope it’s the first of one of these types of milestones in a much longer story for us. I think it’s kind of hard to recognize these things when you’re in the middle of them. There’s a little bit of a Dunning-Kruger thing going on here where we sort of feel like at this point we’ve figured it out.

We know how to do a weekly show now, but I’m sure two years from now, when we’re reflecting on episode 200, we’ll see how much we still had to learn. And so, we so appreciate all of you who are tuning in on the journey so far, and we look forward to using the Humanizing Work Show as a tool to help make work more meaningful, more compassionate, and I guess more useful in solving the big problems we face in our world today.

And if you want to help us celebrate this milestone, we invite you to share an episode that you think might be useful to somebody else and a little bit about why it was useful and help spread the raspberry jam a little bit that way. We appreciate all of you for tuning in. Look forward to the next hundred.

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